In all honesty, I see no real reason for a marriage law aside from a symbolic stance. But if its going to be considered, I think that it needs to be grounded very firmly in the realities of micronationalism.

What are the realities of Micronationalism? Just curious?

In all honesty, I see no real reason for a marriage law aside from a symbolic stance. But if its going to be considered, I think that it needs to be grounded very firmly in the realities of micronationalism.

What are the realities of Micronationalism? Just curious?

Fostéglh da Uniun cáir Progreçéu Talossán

Chair of the Union for Talossan Progress



"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety. " B. Franklin

I hope that once you become a citizen that you would be interested in continuing a working relationship with the UTP (maybe even join?)

Right now we are just a non partisan think tank, but if the Chamber of Deputies continues to snore along its merry way and if our leaders continue to have such a narrow and restricted view of what Talossa can be, just maybe we would find it necessary to enter the political arena.

Antonio,
Thank you.

I think that we could both benefit from a working relationship. I do not think that I will join, but that may change, as I tend to side with those who believe as I do on a given issue. I will have to take a look at what you guys are interested in. We will talk.

I could not have spelled out the reasons for this proposal any better. It is amazing to me how narrow and confined so many of our representative want Talossa’s role to be.

As I said to the President a few days ago…

“…I believe that one of the functions of the Republic is to act as a City on a Hill; that is to promote the best practices for democracies in all parts of the world. Too many of us live in nations where it is illegal to marry who your heart desires based only upon your sex, gender or orientation. If a citizen cannot have this union legally in their nation of residence, then the least we can do is provide for our citizens the opportunity to do it under Talossan authority. If we shy away from big issues such as this we are less a nation and more of a hobby.”

I could not aggree more

I would like to think that my previous comments kind of clarified this. One thing I thought of this morning that was spawned by our converstation yesterday was that marriage needs to be defined by virtue of the fact that are are having this conversation. Because you are asking these questions it needs to be defined. There are others that will have these same questions and I am glad that you asking them. Thank you!

how the institution af a Talossan Marriage could assure people to not being discriminated more than the Constitution does?

Yes, Article Four states that people shall be free of descrimination and so on. But what exactly does that mean in terms of the context of marriage. (I am making an assumption with this next statement.) You do not believe in plural marriage and you will support the preventing the legalization of it, but does that mean the the this right should be denied to others that do believe in it. You do not believe that this is right and defining it will show that in the Republic of Talossa that this is constitutional, legal, and accepted with no questions (well, atleast significantly fewer questions).

By not defining exactly what marriage is and means we are leaving ourselves open to many questions. Are same sex marriages legal? Are plural marriages legal? Is any marriage legal that is not a "traditional marriage" as defined by antiquated and theocratic defintions of macronations today? It is not specifically spelled out by our laws. The constitution says that we cannot be descriminated but what does that mean? Defining Marriage will ensure that their are no questions and prevent the narrowing of the definition from how it is implied by the constitution.

And how Talossa could effectively grant maritial status to its citizen?

Talossa will grant marital status in a similar fashion as do other nations around the world. (Here is the information for the county that I live in.). This is somethng that I think that we will have to look at closely. Close examination of the process will be necessary incase our marriages are scrutinized by macronations or other micronations. I have started to outline the process in a previous post. We will have to look at the process carefully and document it or the Talossan institution of marriage will be a novelty and not something to take seriously.

And what Talossa could gain?

We will be providing a method of validation and the ability to protect it, and and the individuals involved. By not defining it you are in some ways ignoring that it exists and ignoring that this special relationship will not have a consideration on how laws pertain to the individuals or their union.

The laws of the world are changing countries are investigation and passing laws to legalize and acknolwedge an expanded definition of marriage. There are bills everywhere that are accepting same sex unions. It is just a matter of time before Plural marriages are accepted (ACLU ). Why should we start out behind what will be inevitable, and is currently constitutional by our laws. Lets us define this and look towards the future of Talossa.

Your law could generate a scenario where two people are single for the entire world, but married for Talossa. We have to escape from this horrible scenario, son of a Macro or Game fanatism.

Why is this question being asked? Why is our situation different than any other nation in the world? Because we are a micronation that exists solely on the internet composed of people from many different cultures that may never meet eachother and, most importantly, we do not have lands or international recognition.

Is that a good reason to not take a serious issue - seriously? Is this a good reason to not take our future as a nation seriously? We may never obtain international recognition, but we will definitely not ever be taken seriously if we do not take ourselves seriously. An outside government and people outside of he Republic will judge us based on our laws and public face. I am pretty sure that every governenment in the world defines marriage and has laws to validate and protect it. If a Talossan marriage it is to be accepted it cannot be an implied institution and will need to be put into law and defined.

How is a Talossan marriage from marriages in macronations today? If I am married in the United States, I can go and marry someone according to the laws of another country. I can then go to a different nation to live, with wives in to different nations, and continue my life with my son and girlfriend as if the other two never existed and marry again. The United States and many other countries in the world do not acknowlege plural marriages. If a person that comes from a place where plural marriages are legal such as some nations in Africa, India, and various Muslim cultures, that relationship is not valid here. It is definitely taken into serious consideration when a legal situation concerns this relationship.

A marriage is a marriage. What matters is how much we believe in and respect it. The paperwork just gives political an legal validation to this union and gives it legal protection and status. Which ever country I am in does not have to recognize this. Just the fact that they are married by someones definition does give it some level of sactity no matter what you believe or what country you are in. Marriage is a sacred institution that no culture takes lightly. What matters is that I say that I am married and that some entity recognizes it.

By the way, I don't believe in legal marriage at all, so I don't see why Talossa should have laws about it.

I am very curious about this. Please explain you thoughts to me.
What is your definition of "legal marriage"? Why do you not believe in "legal marriage"?

>

how the institution af a Talossan Marriage could assure people to not being >discriminated more than the Constitution does?

Yes, href="http://www.talossa.com/const.html#518">Article Four states that people shall be free of >descrimination and so on. But what exactly does that mean in terms of the context of marriage. (I >am making an assumption with this next statement.) You href="http://www.talossaonline.com/1.23326.0.html">do not believe in plural marriage and you >will support the preventing the legalization of it, but does that mean the the this right should >be denied to others that do believe in it. You do not believe that this is right and defining it >will show that in the Republic of Talossa that this is constitutional, legal, and accepted with no >questions (well, atleast significantly fewer questions).

By not defining exactly what >marriage is and means we are leaving ourselves open to many questions. Are same sex marriages >legal? Are plural marriages legal? Is any marriage legal that is not a "traditional marriage" as >defined by antiquated and theocratic defintions of macronations today? It is not specifically >spelled out by our laws. The constitution says that we cannot be descriminated but what does that >mean? Defining Marriage will ensure that their are no questions and prevent the narrowing of the >definition from how it is implied by the constitution.

Are same sex marriages legal? Are plural marriages legal?

>

And how Talossa could effectively grant maritial status to its citizen?>

Talossa will grant marital status in a similar fashion as do other nations around >the world. (Here is the information for >the county that I live in.). This is somethng that I think that we will have to look at >closely. Close examination of the process will be necessary incase our marriages are scrutinized >by macronations or other micronations. I have started to href="http://www.talossaonline.com/1.23300.0.html" title="Authorized Marriage Officiant">outline >the process in a previous post. We will have to look at the process carefully and document it >or the Talossan institution of marriage will be a novelty and not something to take seriously.

And what Talossa could gain?

We will be providing a method of >validation and the ability to protect it, and and the individuals involved. By not defining it you >are in some ways ignoring that it exists and ignoring that this special relationship will not have >a consideration on how laws pertain to the individuals or their union.

The laws of the world >are changing countries are investigation and >passing laws to legalize and acknolwedge an expanded definition of marriage. There are bills >everywhere that are accepting same sex unions. It is just a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/ssmpoly.htm">matter of time before Plural marriages are >accepted (ACLU - Fighting for Marriage). Why should we start out behind what will be >inevitable, and is currently constitutional by our laws. Lets us define this and look towards the >future of Talossa.

>

Your law could generate a scenario where two people are single for the entire >world, but married for Talossa. We have to escape from this horrible scenario, son of a Macro or >Game fanatism.

>Why is this question being asked? Why is our situation different than any other nation in the >world?

>Because we are a micronation that exists solely on the internet composed of people from many >different cultures that may never meet eachother and, most importantly, we do not have lands >or >international recognition.

Is that a good reason to not take a serious issue - >seriously? >Is this a good reason to not take our future as a nation seriously? We may never obtain >international recognition, but we will definitely not ever be taken seriously if we do not take >ourselves seriously. An outside government and people outside of he Republic will judge us based >on our laws and public face. I am pretty sure that every governenment in the world defines >marriage and has laws to validate and protect it. If a Talossan marriage it is to be accepted it >cannot be an implied institution and will need to be put into law and defined.

Why I am here...

I have done a bit of research on micronations and I choose Talossa because I see so much promise and possibility here. I find it quite disenheartenting that some do not see it or do not want to embrace it. I have not chosen other micronations due to the chosen government types being monarchies. Monarchies have been dying and unsuccesful for a long time. I have not chosen some due there being an official religion. I have not chosen others because their website has not been updated in a long time which shows lack of activity or participation. All of these things say to me there is a lack of seriousness in their creators and thier citizens.

I have found a level of seriousness here and that is why I am here. Because I see that you are serious and because I think that we can make a difference in the world and we can make life better for our citizens. If you do not believe this then it will never have a chance to come true. We should strive for the best that we can, not only for ourselves but for our macronational communities. Talossa can rock the world and set it up on its ears, but only if you want it to....

Our basis are fictitious, and everything we do is fictitious.

May be I want more for Talossa than some are thinking, but by not reaching for the stars you will never know how far Talossa could possibly go. I know that international recognition is not a big issue for most likely everyone here. It is not something that is necessarily being actively pursued or even reasearched. To not put ourselves in the best position possible lacks vision. To not put ourselves in the best position possible for macronational or even micronational interactions is like trainining for years and years for a big race and then once you get there to decide to go get a hamburger instead (of participating in the race). You will be working for the sake of working....

Please forgive this. I have been inspried by Talossa and what you have shown me. I have been here for about a week and I'm already getting feisty...Maybe I am a little out of line...

Marriage

marriage orientations I like that phrase...

I am have been stunned by the fact that some have a reason to not define marriage. I think the primary problem people have a marriage law is the possibility that the government telling me who I can and cannot marry when it is, infact, a very personal choice. I am proposing a law that specificly says that a citizen may marry who and how many people they want to ensure the fact so that there are not questions.

In what way would a law defining marriage be imposing our view on others if it includes all of the marital combinations. Who would be the ones that are descriminated against? Can you show me a way in which a legal definition of marriage as I have proposed could result in descrimination?

Marital questions will be asked by virtue of a defintion not being there. Is this type of marriage recognized or acceptable, or is it not? People that are researching Talossa will want to know, as that is a very important issue to very many people. Not defining a law may make it harder for people to decide to become a citizen, as it will be harder to see where Talossa stands without reading the subtle implications of our constitution. People will not spend a lot of time reasearching this.

Other countries (macro or not) that wish to have diplomatic relations with us will want to know where we stand. If we do become bigger and we want to help our citizens that have issues in their macronational communities with their choice in their marital orientation, the fact that their union is recognized by Talossa will make a difference. I am not saying that this will happen now, but maybe sometime in the future. Explicit governmental recognition that our citizens have an choice and it should not be limited by governmental regulation will be very important to many, many people.

What will we gain from a legal definition of marriage? We, as a country, will state without a doubt to all who are interested, citizens or not, what types of marriages are acceptable in Talossa, and that will be whatever type of marriage that a citizen wants. We will be showing that a marriage is special relationship that is the backbone of society that deserves protection and special consideration in the eyes of the law. A marriage is not just a friendship, it is not just a work relationship, it is not a contract to do work for someone, it is something more. We will give those that do not have a religious preference or are anti-religious a method of having a union. In a way, by not having a law we are descriminating against these people.

Why I am here...

I have done a bit of research on micronations and I choose Talossa because I see so much promise and possibility here. I find it quite disenheartenting that some do not see it or do not want to embrace it. I have not chosen other micronations due to the chosen government types being monarchies. Monarchies have been dying and unsuccesful for a long time. I have not chosen some due there being an official religion. I have not chosen others because their website has not been updated in a long time which shows lack of activity or participation. All of these things say to me there is a lack of seriousness in their creators and thier citizens.

I have found a level of seriousness here and that is why I am here. Because I see that you are serious and because I think that we can make a difference in the world and we can make life better for our citizens.

If you do not believe this then it will never have a chance to come true. We should strive for the best that we can, not only for ourselves but for our macronational communities. Talossa can rock the world and set it up on its ears, but only if you want it to..

Our basis are fictitious, and everything we do is fictitious.

May be I want more for Talossa than some are thinking, but by not reaching for the stars you will never know how far Talossa could possibly go.

Marriage

marriage orientations I like that phrase...

I am have been stunned by the fact that some have a reason to not define marriage. I think the primary problem people have a marriage law is the possibility that the government telling me who I can and cannot marry when it is, infact, a very personal choice. I am proposing a law that specificly says that a citizen may marry who and how many people they want to ensure the fact so that there are not questions.

Not defining a law may make it harder for people to decide to become a citizen, as it will be harder to see where Talossa stands without reading the subtle implications of our constitution. People will not spend a lot of time reasearching this.

help our citizens that have issues in their macronational communities with their choice in their marital orientation,

What will we gain from a legal definition of marriage? We, as a country, will state without a doubt to all who are interested, citizens or not, what types of marriages are acceptable in Talossa,

We will be showing that a marriage is special relationship that is the backbone of society that deserves protection and special consideration in the eyes of the law. A marriage is not just a friendship, it is not just a work relationship, it is not a contract to do work for someone, it is something more.

In a way, by not having a law we are descriminating against these people.

Const guarantees that none will be discriminated in the Republic. I can't see how this law can "officialy define what the constitution says about freedom from descrimination and prejudice".

None will be discriminated regardless his sexual orientations stated the Const.

What at law says and how it is interpreted and carried out may be two different things. putting it in writing will ensure that there are no questions.

Sorry, but i'm against plural marriages.

Step one on the way to passing a law that does not allow personal choice and it basing it on prejudice and descrimination. Whether you are against it or not does not mean others do not have the right to live as such. Their right is protected and rightfully so. To prevent questions by spelling it out is a good idea especially on such a contriversial topic.

I'm not sure, if there's no maritial status, why such laws should be affected by maritial status? I can't understand..... Anyway, if we'll need them, we can approve them in the future.

In the US taxes are affected by marital status as well as Wills and divorces and lawsuits and other legal matters that the marital status may need to be taken into account.