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| What is Talossa? Where is Talossanity located? | Justice dal Navâ | June 06, 2006 - 10:18 | | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 10:45 |
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Parent message | | Justice dal Navâ | June 06, 2006 - 10:18 |
| RE: What is Talossa? Where is Talossanity located?(#26930), posted by Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 10:45. Viewed 228 times. |
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Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu
Group: citizens
(847 posts total)
(last post: March 12, 2008 - 12:13)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | Interesting thought, Chris, and a very good question.
There is always a lot of talk about our roots and cultural history, much of which is located in the continental US. As much as some would like to say that Talossa is not America, certain parts of Milwaukee and what ever else is Talossa and nothing else, we cannot help but reconcile that our land claims and our cultural history is very much founded in the United States. The Talossa is Talossa or Talossa is in the US arguments is used when convenient for the argument and lacks a consistency. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in specific, but this is something that I have noticed. A Choice of convenience to the argument at the time. Yes, answering this question will help make certain choices more clear.
The way I am phrasing this is a long stretch, but I think you will see where I am coming from. The only real way to definitively justify dropping the Imperial System as well as other trappings of our American roots is to drop the land claims. Drop the land claims and relegate this to an artifact of our past and evolve into Talossa as it can be unfettered by relics of the past. Land claims to Milwaukee is an illusion that holds us back. Once we drop the land claims and free ourselves from our American ties and become a nation of the World then questions like this will not have to be asked. We would not be held back by our American ties and would be able to think about Talossa as an Ephemeral Nation and move on from there. I know this is not popular... maybe I am the only one who believes this... =)
Then again, this is just the resident pot stirrer speaking.
=)
In summary, I am OK with going all metric, but in the interest of preserving our very strong US roots and greatly increasing the potential usability in the macronational world, the US specifically, we should keep the Imperial System of measurement along with the Metric system, until such time as well transcend beyond our American bindings.
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| | Andy | June 06, 2006 - 18:22 |
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Parent message | | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 10:45 |
| RE: What is Talossa? Where is Talossanity located?(#26953), posted by Andy, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 18:22. Viewed 97 times. |
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Andy
Group: friends
(2043 posts total)
(last post: January 29, 2008 - 18:09)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | Since you bring up the land claims and your ignorance as to whom else might share your views, let me mention that I have always considered them to be the height of silliness. Not that silliness is always bad, mind you. To debate such claims (which were always held in a whimsical way to begin with) with another entity making similar claims seems utter foolishness to me. Maybe I'm just getting too old. I've noticed that I don't like loud music as much as I once did. And don't even ask me how often I pee nowadays. Lawdy, chile, this gettin' old ain't for sissies. Now, where was I?
A.
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Andrew Lowry
andy@snufftalk.org
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| | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 15:33 |
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Parent message | | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 10:45 |
| RE: What is Talossa? Where is Talossanity located?(#26941), posted by la garçâ malpadert, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 15:33. Viewed 118 times. |
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la garçâ malpadert
Group: admins
(4379 posts total)
(last post: March 13, 2008 - 16:29)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > The Talossa is Talossa or Talossa is in the US arguments is used when convenient for the argument and lacks a consistency. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in specific, but this is something that I have noticed.
Who's arguing that Talossa is "in the US"? Talossa seceded from the US in 1979. Talossa is Talossa, and is surrounded by the US. Simple, surely.
> The way I am phrasing this is a long stretch, but I think you will see where I am coming from. The only real way to definitively justify dropping the Imperial System as well as other trappings of our American roots is to drop the land claims.
And thus drop the whole idea of Talossa as an independent, sovereign state and become some kind of internet entity. Look, guy, Mexico's in North America. Are you going to drive south of the border and demand that they adopt Imperial measurements just because they're close to the US? You are using this debate as a red herring to push an idea that would mean Talossa cutting ties with 27 years of continuous cultural history, and becoming like every other third-rate internet discussion group populated by geeks.
Miestrâ Schivâ
Seneschál dal Repúblicâ Talossán etc.
"The Republic's Most Articulate Spokeswhatever" - R. B. Madison
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| | Andy | June 06, 2006 - 18:36 |
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Parent message | | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 15:33 |
| What in the sanguine hell are you talking about?(#26954), posted by Andy, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 18:36. Viewed 100 times. |
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Andy
Group: friends
(2043 posts total)
(last post: January 29, 2008 - 18:09)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > And thus drop the whole idea of Talossa as an independent, sovereign state and become some kind of internet entity.
Talossa is, and always has been, a region of the mind. Its existence depends on our co-operation, and occasional struggle, with one another to support its semi-real state. Arguing its geography and the best practices attendant thereto is foolish, as there is no geography other than what is in our heads. I could get real wacky here and start talking about Big Mind and everyday mind and it would all seem very philosophical and serious and I'd hate that as much as everyone else, so I won't. But I think you know what I mean. Metric, non-metric, what the hell-- why not just do what works best for all of us and thus what is best for Talossa? Let's keep 'em both.
Andy
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Andrew Lowry
andy@snufftalk.org
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| | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 16:23 |
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Parent message | | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 15:33 |
| RE: What is Talossa? Where is Talossanity located?(#26945), posted by Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 16:23. Viewed 115 times. |
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Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu
Group: citizens
(847 posts total)
(last post: March 12, 2008 - 12:13)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | Having a land claim or not makes us no more a micronation than any other micronation until those land claims can realistically be actualized. Until that moment 'land claims' are just what they are - words. It can make us seem more legitimate, but that is really an illusion that is used to help justify claims to sovereignty. So this idea begs the question "What defines sovereignty?" especially as it applies to Talossa as a micronation.
The interesting thing about history is that it is in the past. History advances, moves on, changes. If it did not we would still be in the Kingdom.
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| | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 17:03 |
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Parent message | | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 16:23 |
| Tell me, where is fancy bred? In the heart or in the head?(#26946), posted by la garçâ malpadert, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 17:03. Viewed 112 times. |
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la garçâ malpadert
Group: admins
(4379 posts total)
(last post: March 13, 2008 - 16:29)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > Having a land claim or not makes us no more a micronation than any other micronation until those land claims can realistically be actualized.
Every other micronation has land claims, unless I missed something.
> Until that moment 'land claims' are just what they are - words. It can make us seem more legitimate, but that is really an illusion that is used to help justify claims to sovereignty.
No, it's a link to twenty-seven years of continuous cultural history, which is precisely what makes us different (and IMHO better) than other micronations. Except perhaps Nova Roma, who have even more history. :)
> The interesting thing about history is that it is in the past. History advances, moves on, changes. If it did not we would still be in the Kingdom.
Talossa is a nation bounded by Edgewood Avenue and the Milwaukee River, of which the Republic claims the lower half. If we give up that claim, we are no longer Talossa. We are something else. Frankly I think the Progressives want us to be "something else" a lot of the time. (Please note that there's nothing wrong with that, it's a valid political position, just not one I agree with.)
The really scary thing is that I've been here before, on the other side of the debate. The Free Commonwealth of Penguinea gave up its land claims and pretentions to nationhood a couple of years into its existence. It never made it to a third year, because once we declared ourselves "not a micronation" there was never another consensus on what the hell we were.
Miestrâ Schivâ
Seneschál dal Repúblicâ Talossán etc.
"The Republic's Most Articulate Spokeswhatever" - R. B. Madison
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| | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 17:23 |
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Parent message | | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 17:03 |
| RE: Tell me, where is fancy bred? In the heart or in the head?(#26949), posted by Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 17:23. Viewed 107 times. |
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Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu
Group: citizens
(847 posts total)
(last post: March 12, 2008 - 12:13)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | Giving up land claims does not mean that we are not Talossa. It means that we are changing, evolving, maturing and going our own direction. What was done in the past does not mean that it was correct or best for the our present situation.
Giving up land claims does not mean that we would not be a micronation and it would not be a harbinger that foretells the end of Talossa. We would transition from a non-territorial sovereign with an illusion to a non-territorial sovereign. The only way that our land claims mean anything is if we make a hard drive to truly convince the inhabitants of Milwaukee area's that we claim to join Talossa and officially secede from the US. I am curious if this is seriously on someone's agenda either here or in the Kingdom? Somehow, I do not think that it is.
Are you saying that a primary factor to the Commonwealth of Penguinea cessation was due to giving up land claims?
Giving up these Land Claims would be to let down an illusion - to rid ourselves of a lie that helps to "fortify" our existence. The illusory truths that we hold dear will cause the card house to crumble. and allow us to move on to bigger and greater things.
Again, this is just the Radical Crazed Progressive Pot Stirrer stirring the pot.
=)
Thanks for listening.
Move along people. Move along!
;)
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| | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 17:54 |
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Parent message | | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 17:23 |
| RE: Tell me, where is fancy bred? In the heart or in the head?(#26951), posted by la garçâ malpadert, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 17:54. Viewed 98 times. |
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la garçâ malpadert
Group: admins
(4379 posts total)
(last post: March 13, 2008 - 16:29)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber |
> Giving up these Land Claims would be to let down an illusion - to rid ourselves of a lie that helps to "fortify" our existence. The illusory truths that we hold dear will cause the card house to crumble. and allow us to move on to bigger and greater things.
You could be quoting my good friend E. Gallagher from 1999. He was wrong then, and I think you're wrong now. Talossa is a micronation, that is, a small organisation which pretends to sovereignty over a territory. It will not be Talossa if it becomes something different.
A question: exactly why did you join Talossa and not some other micronation? What is it about Talossa that makes it better than the run of the mill, in your opinion?
Miestrâ Schivâ
Seneschál dal Repúblicâ Talossán etc.
"The Republic's Most Articulate Spokeswhatever" - R. B. Madison
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| | Andy | June 06, 2006 - 18:50 |
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Parent message | | la garçâ malpadert | June 06, 2006 - 17:54 |
| I'd love to answer that, if you'll forgive the butting-in.(#26956), posted by Andy, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 18:50. Viewed 123 times. |
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Andy
Group: friends
(2043 posts total)
(last post: January 29, 2008 - 18:09)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > A question: exactly why did you join Talossa and not some other micronation? What is it about Talossa that makes it better than the run of the mill, in your opinion?
I know that wasn't directed to me, but when I saw it I had to think about it for .14 seconds before the answer was clear-- it was because of the people involved. Not the language, the territorial claims, or the "pageantry." Many have been drawn by the language and then stayed for the people. Few, if any, were ever serious about claiming land that, in reality, belonged to them anyway, and stayed for the others involved. The pageantry (by which I mean the politics and the monarchy) attracted some, too, and some of those folks stayed for their newfound peers as well.
Are you having a different experience?
Andy
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Andrew Lowry
andy@snufftalk.org
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| | President Anglatzarâ | June 07, 2006 - 03:29 |
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Parent message | | Andy | June 06, 2006 - 18:50 |
| RE: I'd love to answer that, if you'll forgive the butting-in.(#26972), posted by President Anglatzarâ, [IP Hidden], June 07, 2006 - 03:29. Viewed 117 times. |
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President Anglatzarâ
Group: admins
(3194 posts total)
(last post: March 14, 2008 - 07:21)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > > A question: exactly why did you join Talossa and not some other micronation? What is it about Talossa that makes it better than the run of the mill, in your opinion?
>
> I know that wasn't directed to me, but when I saw it I had to think about it for .14 seconds before the answer was clear-- it was because of the people involved. Not the language, the territorial claims, or the "pageantry." Many have been drawn by the language and then stayed for the people. Few, if any, were ever serious about claiming land that, in reality, belonged to them anyway, and stayed for the others involved. The pageantry (by which I mean the politics and the monarchy) attracted some, too, and some of those folks stayed for their newfound peers as well.
>
> Are you having a different experience?
Partly. I joined because it is a perfect mock-up country, with territory, a foreign language, parliament, political parties. In equal measure, I specifically never joined Penguinea/Polyphony because it was yet another of an endless number of virtual debating socities trying to develop a perfect direct democracy. This is the literal truth, not something I'm making up to further some sort of argument.
On the other hand, had it not been for the people, I wouldn't have stayed on either. Sometimes, though, I think the trappings of a nation are more important than the specific people to me. I don't know. Both are vital.
--
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| | D. N. Vercáriâ | June 06, 2006 - 17:53 |
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Parent message | | Túischac’h Txec Ereufighleu | June 06, 2006 - 17:23 |
| Peculiarism at work!(#26950), posted by D. N. Vercáriâ, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 17:53. Viewed 106 times. |
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D. N. Vercáriâ
Group: citizens
(4498 posts total)
(last post: March 15, 2008 - 16:51)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > Are you saying that a primary factor to the Commonwealth of Penguinea cessation was due to giving up land claims?
Of course this would be a falsified history. The Free Commonwealth of Penguinea aped Talossa in claiming land on a tiny island in a bay near Brisbane, Australia. This claim was given up at some time, and possibly that was beginning of a process that lead to the abolishion of the idea / pretense of being a micronation.
But the mistake that we made was not to give up on land claims on St. Helens Island, Queensland, Australia. The mistake was to give up on the wish to remain, be, become a howsoever big or small or tiny nation or state of mind, as the GWP once tried to suggest (yes, I have to admit that I left the true path of Peculiarism at this time, and surrendered to a pale "realism"). More precisely put, the mistake was the wish to establish a fun-proof, strictly rational "internet community" which would never condone to any pretense.
As a Peculiarist, I should have known better - which was why I re-introduced Peculiarism to the brandnew Republic of Talossa, once my citizenship application sailed through.
- Dieter |
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| | Üc Tärfâ | June 06, 2006 - 10:35 |
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Parent message | | Justice dal Navâ | June 06, 2006 - 10:18 |
| In Talossa, and in the World.(#26927), posted by Üc Tärfâ, [IP Hidden], June 06, 2006 - 10:35. Viewed 68 times. |
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Üc Tärfâ
Group: citizens
(1365 posts total)
(last post: March 10, 2008 - 08:29)
Citizen #2:
Chris Gruber | > > BTW: soon european ID will be uniformated in electronic format... and ID size.
>
> This item mentioned and the current argument about metric reminds me of something we should address: the inherent "continentality" of Talossa. Is Talossa European, since Ben adopted British spellings (a fun conceit I enjoy myself) and quite a bit of ideas from European nations, or is she American, since many institutions and the majority population itself have always been American? Truth be told, arguments could be made for either.
>
> Personally, I see her as both, not unlike Canada, but not quite Canada. Anyone else have any thoughts? I feel that once we've defined THAT, then we can figure out all of the succeeding issues, such as which measurement system(s) to use, official conventions for other things, etc... What say you, people?
Talossa like Canada is inluenced by both American and European Culture... and I believe she can learn the best of both system. The istitutional system is an exemple of the co-exhistance of both, even if it's more present the Exemple of westminster style (government-parliament) rather than the Continental one. Instead the High Court is the perfect copy of the US Supreme Court.
But should remember to be "Talossán" and be inserted in a global contest. This means that, as soon as it doesn't affect the Talossanity, usable, understable and confortable by the most people. And this is why I support the Metric system, because it's understable by everyone in the world, laso by those who usaully don't use it.
____________________________
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***My mother language is not English ;-)***
e-mail: elistir AT yahoo.com |
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