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  • SUGGESTED AMENDMENT: Unicameralism
    		• la garçâ malpadertJanuary 31, 2005 - 00:27
    Why I think that Senators are important(#1023), posted by Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W., [IP Hidden], January 31, 2005 - 11:11. Viewed 412 times.
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir    		In a Micronation with elections every 6 months, it is entirely possible for a party to generate a lot of interest in a short span of time thanks to either new citizens, or new ideas.

    With a relativly low population, a micronation is especially sensitive to immigration.

    Some might bring in several of his friends, to the joy of everyone, and then use them to foster an army of pocket votes and dominate the chamber.

    Don't laugh, don't call me paranoid. I am not saying it WILL happend, I am saying it CAN, and our constitution should expect the best, and protect from the worst.

    With a slow moving senate ( 2 years term ) it will take time to change it's senators, unlike the lower chamber, which changes completly every 6 months.

    As such, the senate should protect against rapid immigration of undesired folks, etc...

    On the other hand, should a new citizen bring in a lot of his childhood friends to Talossa to gain more votes, he might win the Deputy seats, but if his friends all come from his hometown, they would all be in the same province, giving him only control of 1 of the 5 senate seat, protecting the country.

    REMEMBER FOLKS, we might not have a mad king, but we don't have his veto to protect us against future problems.

    That's why the Senate ought to exist. To protect.

    he, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
    and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
    whatd u think they'd say?
    something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"
    Why I think that Senators are importantMr. Furxheir, R.M.W.January 31, 2005 - 11:11
    la garçâ malpadertFebruary 01, 2005 - 03:02
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.January 31, 2005 - 11:11
    RE: Why I think that Senators are important(#1045), posted by la garçâ malpadert, [IP Hidden], February 01, 2005 - 03:02. Viewed 391 times.
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    la garçâ malpadert
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir
    > With a relativly low population, a micronation is especially sensitive to immigration.
    >
    > Some might bring in several of his friends, to the joy of everyone, and then use them to foster an army of pocket votes and dominate the chamber.
    [...]
    > REMEMBER FOLKS, we might not have a mad king, but we don't have his veto to protect us against future problems.

    This attitude that "outsiders" are just itching to mass-immigrate into Talossa and "take over" reeks of Ben-like paranoia, and, I hope, will soon die out in the new Republic. The King's veto never protected Talossa from anything except sanity.

    I am leaning towards supporting the Senate because I agree long-serving Talossans should have a respected place in the Constitution, but arguments from fear and suspicion of newbies like M-P's aren't a good look for my side of the argument.



    Miestrâ Schivâ

    "The Republic's Most Articulate Spokeswhatever" - R. B. Madison

    A slave begins by demanding justice, and ends by wanting to wear a crown.
    President AnglatzarâFebruary 01, 2005 - 06:28
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    la garçâ malpadertFebruary 01, 2005 - 03:02
    RE: Why I think that Senators are important(#1047), posted by President Anglatzarâ, [IP Hidden], February 01, 2005 - 06:28. Viewed 413 times.
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    President Anglatzarâ
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir    		> I am leaning towards supporting the Senate because I agree long-serving Talossans should have a respected place in the Constitution

    If that were the purpose of a senate, I would consider changing my position. But as long as it is a second layer for representing people based on where they live, I think it is entirely unnecessary.
    --
    Less is more - say no to fat books
    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.February 01, 2005 - 08:44
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    President AnglatzarâFebruary 01, 2005 - 06:28
    Than maybe we can work out a deal...(#1048), posted by Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W., [IP Hidden], February 01, 2005 - 08:44. Viewed 398 times.
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir    		> > I am leaning towards supporting the Senate because I agree long-serving Talossans should have a respected place in the Constitution
    >
    > If that were the purpose of a senate, I would consider changing my position. But as long as it is a second layer for representing people based on where they live, I think it is entirely unnecessary.
    > --


    My goal for the Senate is exactly for that : a chamber "reserved" for the "elders".

    We decided to double the goal into representing the Provinces ( because you can't just have a chamber of elders ), but the real goal for me, is to have people who have seen the history of the country, and understand it throughly to have a say, while allowing "newbies" with fresh ideas to have seats in the chamber of Deputies.

    I would rather sit in the Senate, and let newcomers with new exciting ideas in the House of Deputies. This is why I insist on a 2 years terms : to have stability and a long-term vision.

    But we need a method of election for the Senate, so I think that representing the provinces might fit.

    If you have another idea, I am game !



    he, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
    and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
    whatd u think they'd say?
    something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"
    la garçâ malpadertFebruary 01, 2005 - 18:36
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.February 01, 2005 - 08:44
    Here's a wicked idea.(#1050), posted by la garçâ malpadert, [IP Hidden], February 01, 2005 - 18:36. Viewed 411 times.
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    la garçâ malpadert
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir    		> > > I am leaning towards supporting the Senate because I agree long-serving Talossans should have a respected place in the Constitution
    > >
    > > If that were the purpose of a senate, I would consider changing my position. But as long as it is a second layer for representing people based on where they live, I think it is entirely unnecessary.

    > But we need a method of election for the Senate, so I think that representing the provinces might fit.
    >
    > If you have another idea, I am game !

    How about the Single Transferable Vote system, as used in Ireland, Australia and the former Free Commonwealth of Penguinea. A preferential vote to fill multiple seats, in other words.

    You've all seen how preferential voting works to fill one position - losing candidates are eliminated and their votes given to their second preferences. The differences to fill, say, a three-person Senate would be:

    a) a candidate need to get at least a quarter of first-preference votes to win;
    b) not only the votes of losing candidates, but the "surplus" votes of winning candidates (that is, any votes more than they needed to win), get distributed.

    Deet has experience of how this works. As it stands, I prefer the provincial representation idea solely because it's easier to understand. But, here's an opening for debate.



    Miestrâ Schivâ

    "The Republic's Most Articulate Spokeswhatever" - R. B. Madison

    A slave begins by demanding justice, and ends by wanting to wear a crown.
    D. N. VercáriâFebruary 01, 2005 - 15:53
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.February 01, 2005 - 08:44
    RE: Than maybe we can work out a deal...(#1049), posted by D. N. Vercáriâ, [IP Hidden], February 01, 2005 - 15:53. Viewed 382 times.
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    D. N. Vercáriâ
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir    		> > > I am leaning towards supporting the Senate because I agree long-serving Talossans should have a respected place in the Constitution
    > >
    > > If that were the purpose of a senate, I would consider changing my position. But as long as it is a second layer for representing people based on where they live, I think it is entirely unnecessary.
    > > --
    >
    >
    > My goal for the Senate is exactly for that : a chamber "reserved" for the "elders".
    >
    > We decided to double the goal into representing the Provinces ( because you can't just have a chamber of elders ), but the real goal for me, is to have people who have seen the history of the country, and understand it throughly to have a say, while allowing "newbies" with fresh ideas to have seats in the chamber of Deputies.
    >
    > I would rather sit in the Senate, and let newcomers with new exciting ideas in the House of Deputies. This is why I insist on a 2 years terms : to have stability and a long-term vision.
    >
    > But we need a method of election for the Senate, so I think that representing the provinces might fit.
    >
    > If you have another idea, I am game !

    This Senate of elders (sic!) brings in an element of aristocracy (or gerontocracy, in terms of time spent as a Talossan), doesn't it? Reminds me of the House of Lords (?) in Britain.

    Presently I don't have an opinion regarding the Senate as representing the provinces. I hope that later this day or tomorrow I shall get around to re-read what the draft constitution has to say about the Senate and provinces and the federation. I suppose that the legal clockwork of these elements should be described in the constitution... well. I'll be back as soon as I've done reading the draft to find out.

    - D. N. Vercáriâ
    la garçâ malpadertJanuary 31, 2005 - 14:59
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.January 31, 2005 - 11:11
    RE: Why I think that Senators are important(#1029), posted by la garçâ malpadert, [IP Hidden], January 31, 2005 - 14:59. Viewed 459 times.
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    la garçâ malpadert
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir
    > With a slow moving senate ( 2 years term )

    The current Senate is slated to have a 1 year term. If you want to change this, submit an amendment now.


    Miestrâ Schivâ

    "The Republic's Most Articulate Spokeswhatever" - R. B. Madison

    A slave begins by demanding justice, and ends by wanting to wear a crown.
    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.January 31, 2005 - 15:34
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    la garçâ malpadertJanuary 31, 2005 - 14:59
    It is ???(#1032), posted by Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W., [IP Hidden], January 31, 2005 - 15:34. Viewed 397 times.
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    Mr. Furxheir, R.M.W.
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    Citizen #20:
    Martí- Paìr Furxhéir    		>
    > > With a slow moving senate ( 2 years term )
    >
    > The current Senate is slated to have a 1 year term. If you want to change this, submit an amendment now.
    >
    >

    I didn't realize it ! I'll submit one !

    he, if we sent all the criminals to some empty continent and just left them there to die
    and showed up like 50yrs later like, "sup?"
    whatd u think they'd say?
    something along the lines of, "G`Day mate"
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